Curse

Yoshikuni Mahsu · Jun 28, 2008, 08:55 AM // 08:55

SEXY NAME AMIRITE?
I thought it sounded cool.

Anyway, in a burst of creativity (stemming from refusal to believe scorpion wire is not the amazing skill I believe it to be), I was going through the components that make a great (spike) sin build:

Damage
Synergy (the spike executes well)
Speed (try to keep as few dagger attacks as possible)

And everyone knows the best way to get all these three in one is cut back as much as possible on lead attacks: more dual attacks. Dual attacks do big damage, and the # of these basically determine a dagger sins spiking capability. Now of course the only reasonable way to get two dual attacks in a bar without having 6/8 dagger skills is cutting back on lead attacks. Hence the favored dagger skills are off-hand attacks that require no lead, these being:

Black Spider Strike
Golden Phoenix Strike
Falling Lotus
Falling Spider

The elimination of Black Lotus Strike basically elimanted dual offhand-dual dual attack sin bars, as Enchantment/Hex combo hogs too much skill bar room, and allows for no KD's. Lotus/Spider Is simply implausible because KD is too hard a condition to fulfill twice.

Lotus/Spider + Phoenix/BlackSpider is the only plausible option, but even these possible combination do not work as well as simply using lead attacks (the only synergistic kd's are dagger dual attacks, one of which sucks -HOTO- and the other of which's condition is simply cannot be fulfilled in a 4 dagger chain. Non-1/4sec hexes are a major giveaway for a spike, while instability is simply has no value other than the KD, you might as well take a lead attack in its place.

Hence, my insane creation!

[build prof=Assassin/Elementalist][Scorpion Wire][Falling Lotus Strike][Twisting Fangs][Golden Phoenix Strike][Blades of Steel][Conjure Lightning][Shadow Meld][No Skill][/build]

The build is mainly ment to rape in AB. It CAN work to some extent in HB (though 100' is 1 bubble and 1/4, so its not synergistic with high lvl HB as you must leave capping range to spike). It can work in GvG effectively, and RA/TA with relative effectiveness (maps tend to be small)

My favorite aspect of the build is that it encourages SKILLFUL ASSASSIN PLAY - Holy sh*t, right?

This is simply so because the usage and build can be extremely effective if used smart, aswell as executing the spike requires more than 1-2-3-4.

The idea is to cast shadow meld on an ally as soon as you get in, find a target, close within range for scorpion wire, release shadow meld, teleporting you more than 100' away (if you placed your meld smart), thus activating scorpion wire in a matter of 1/2 of a second, from here simply execute your chain.

But thats not it! When you click on shadow meld to release it, you auto-target yourself. So? So basically, if auto targeting is on, when you teleport to your victim auto target will target the enemy closest to you and closest to the center of the screen - because you can teleport anywhere in a 360 degree angle around your victim, its pretty impossible to position your screen perfect, often finding yourself trying to execute a lotus on a completely different target.

The way to get it to go smoothly is simple - bind the "priority target" targeting key somewhere reachable on your keyboard, or as close to your lotus key as possible. When you find a victim, ctrl + attack to call them as a target, now pressing that key you binded will automatically target them. After you release meld, simply mash on that key along with lotus strike. Mashing isnt really guaranteed, but thats how most will do it - guarenteed is to wait until you see wire activating, and then hit your priority target key a few times, followed by lotus. The key here is targeting first, then lotus, same time = bad. Now in ab or something of the sort one of your party members might call I priority target, overtop your own target, you can usually re-call right over theres again, but your safest bet is to just press the little symbol next to your name on the party menu, this will guarentee you find the right target.

As for the build its something like:
11 Dagger + 1 + 1
11 or 12 in Air (whatever adds +17 per hit)
rest in Crit + 1

Spike Energy - About 20, leaving you to be free to use survivors/vitae

Spike DPS - Shouldve taken it to the master of dmg, can take down the 100al with great ease

Optionals/Varients:

[skill]Aura of Displacement[/skill] can replace meld, though I have not tested it I doubt it would be any different in targetting, but if you want to have a range for your wire every time your best bet is meld.

You can go /W for a IAS, or any other secondary you fancy as long as you have a enchantment (shadow refuge can even work, just cast before the spike) for golden pheonix.

Ghostcell · Jun 28, 2008, 09:06 AM // 09:06

eh, looks interesting - nothing overly great though

Bahamuth · Jun 28, 2008, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Wire and Meld is great fun. Your enemy will be completely confused when you shadow step like 3 times.

I'd cut Conjure Lightning. Your chain is easily strong enough to kill priority targets in AB. You really want a high number in critical strikes, because the energy management it gives is really important. Twisting Fangs is a crit strikes skill, so it's much more effective with higher.

I'd also cut Falling Lotus strike for Falling Spider. With high (and I mean 13, because that's the breaking point for 3 energy) critical strikes, you don't need a Lotus strike any more. Poison adds much to the spike and adds another condition.

The two slots you have left should imo go to self maintainment. A speed boost might be a good idea (Dash), or perhaps a self-heal (neutrality) or condition removal (Mending Touch).

Bobby2 · Jun 28, 2008, 03:36 PM // 15:36

2x Falling is quite feasible. The Shove Sin does it (very!) well.

On topic tho...

I've fooled around with Scorp for the same reason you are, but I've found it too much of a drag to make it work. It's heavily reliant on the behaviour of your opponent unless you dedicate another one or two slots to ensure Scorp's correct activation.

For what? A KD? There are easier (thus more reliant) ways to get it.

Oh and consider this AB scenario:
- me: casts Scorp
- byatch Necro: runs right into one of their shrines
- me: dies
- byatch Necro: /laugh
Can you blame him?

RavagerOfDreams · Jun 28, 2008, 04:46 PM // 16:46

good idea however your build lacks what all sin builds lack in AB

survivability

you'll jump in spike /laugh at the corpse then get shit raped by whatever else is in there

Bobby2 · Jun 28, 2008, 05:13 PM // 17:13

I never /laugh at corpses when their friends are nearby.

Oh and with decent Deadly Arts (which any 'good' [skill]scorpion wire[/skill] bar should have anyway), don't underestimate the power of [skill]siphon speed[/skill]... it gets me out of otherwise tremendously sticky situations.
Adding a cancel ([skill]shadow walk[/skill][skill]dash[/skill], [skill]aura of displacement[/skill]) is just... gravy.

RavagerOfDreams · Jun 28, 2008, 06:05 PM // 18:05

[Aura of Displacement] is honestly the only elite I use in AB i love making wammos chase me then warping clear across the map ^_____________^

Bobby2 · Jun 28, 2008, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Scorp is a bit of a weirdo, now that I think about it

it worked better for me as I put LESS points in Deadly because it gave the target less time to make it
HORRIBLY BLOW UP IN MY FACE

Yoshikuni Mahsu · Jun 28, 2008, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bahamuth

Wire and Meld is great fun. Your enemy will be completely confused when you shadow step like 3 times.

I'd cut Conjure Lightning. Your chain is easily strong enough to kill priority targets in AB. You really want a high number in critical strikes, because the energy management it gives is really important. Twisting Fangs is a crit strikes skill, so it's much more effective with higher.

I'd also cut Falling Lotus strike for Falling Spider. With high (and I mean 13, because that's the breaking point for 3 energy) critical strikes, you don't need a Lotus strike any more. Poison adds much to the spike and adds another condition.

The two slots you have left should imo go to self maintainment. A speed boost might be a good idea (Dash), or perhaps a self-heal (neutrality) or condition removal (Mending Touch).

The #1 Reason conjure is there is because I always have a fun fun time trying to find a maintainable (or atleast one long enough) enchantment to make golden phoenix work, and with conjure you dont need the poisen as you've already a ton of dmg. It came to the point of using shadow refuge as my enchantment (works-actually, not very well, but works) for other sin bars.

So the most viable option here, imo, would be /Mo or /D for restful breeze, natural healing or something, and try to find an enchantment from the monk, derv, or sin skills.

Also - if you find a skill from the dervish that strips enchantments, you can use it to strip meld from yourself on spikes, I think this would fix the targeting issue meld causes.

EDIT: @ Ravager, A good sin can survive just as well with a single skill like AoD or Shadow Meld as a sin with a bar packed with self heals and speed boosts.

Super Igor · Jun 28, 2008, 09:05 PM // 21:05

This spike is kindof uncertain, also lack of ias is nogg.

Super Igor · Jun 28, 2008, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams

[Aura of Displacement] is honestly the only elite I use in AB i love making wammos chase me then warping clear across the map ^_____________^

Aww such a cute smiley and yeah =1 for this, luv it too.

Yoshikuni Mahsu · Jun 28, 2008, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

This spike is kindof uncertain, also lack of ias is nogg.

Quote:

[skill]Aura of Displacement[/skill] can replace meld, though I have not tested it I doubt it would be any different in targetting, but if you want to have a range for your wire every time your best bet is meld.

You can go /W for a IAS, or any other secondary you fancy as long as you have a enchantment (shadow refuge can even work, just cast before the spike) for golden pheonix.

Its only uncertain if your terrible at guildwars.

RavagerOfDreams · Jun 29, 2008, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoshikuni Mahsu

EDIT: @ Ravager, A good sin can survive just as well with a single skill like AoD or Shadow Meld as a sin with a bar packed with self heals and speed boosts.

using shadow meld is not enough i agree with AoD being enough which is what i said i think.... or at least implied. Shadow Meld is relient on the fact that you have a ally in the area and that hes not in any sort of trouble... not hating on your build but its cramped, has no ias, only one knockdown at the beggining (which to me isnt as good as a knockdown in the middle of a chain), has a iffy requirement, and has no ims which is almost a necessity in AB which is what you designed this for amiright?

Bowstring Badass · Jun 29, 2008, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Scorpion Wire is no where near my bar.

AoD was far more appealing at not making me run a gimped ass build. Honestly most assassin instagibs were killed with [[black lotus strike] nerf and for obvious reasons.

Also to trigger scorpion wire just target the guy and cast it then walk away lol. No need for them to do anything for you.

@ravager- He has a free spot. [dash] seems like a good ims for this build.

RavagerOfDreams · Jun 30, 2008, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

@ravager- He has a free spot. [dash] seems like a good ims for this build.

then no IAS. Any half decent monk will know to run after first knockdown

Yoshikuni Mahsu · Jun 30, 2008, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Any half decent monk would be guardian'd, spirit bonded, or far away from you before you even spike.

Regardless I decided it could be better, I turned out liking this version alot more:

[build prof=Assassin/Dervish][Scorpion Wire][Whirling Charge][Falling Spider][Twisting Fangs][Golden Phoenix Strike][Blades of Steel][Shadow Meld][Harrier's Grasp][/build]

Harriers Grasp is your optional - but it has to be an enchantment. Lyssa's Haste, Feather foot Grace, or even vow of piety since its cheap and easily maintainable, can replace it. The snare from harriers is not exactly needed when you've got ims and ias from whirling.

There is a different way to execute the spike which ive been playing with, which is basically: run to target golden pheonix ~> twisting (you can drop harriers, doing this shadow meld will be your enchant), ~> scorpion wire ~> release meld ~> spider/blades

The 2nd way isnt exactly as effective as the first, but if your target is relatively smart and expecting the spike you can catch them off guard a bit.

Bowstring Badass · Jun 30, 2008, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams

then no IAS. Any half decent monk will know to run after first knockdown

It is ab. Seriously how many good monks are there in that place 5? lol

But honestly a build to kill players in AB is pointless just make an instagib build xD.

RavagerOfDreams · Jun 30, 2008, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

It is ab. Seriously how many good monks are there in that place 5? lol

But honestly a build to kill players in AB is pointless just make an instagib build xD.

tbh that is the argument of a person who knows hes wrong

as for your new harrier build yoshi who needs energy anyways? 10harriers 10shadow(and the -1) 5wire 5 charge combo

anyways if you have whirling charge you dont need harrier's a less expensive enchantment would be better

also if you could tell me roughly how long it takes you to hex shadowstep out then back in it would be great.

Yoshikuni Mahsu · Jul 01, 2008, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams

tbh that is the argument of a person who knows hes wrong

as for your new harrier build yoshi who needs energy anyways? 10harriers 10shadow(and the -1) 5wire 5 charge combo

anyways if you have whirling charge you dont need harrier's a less expensive enchantment would be better

also if you could tell me roughly how long it takes you to hex shadowstep out then back in it would be great.

just put harriers on there cause it looks good, I ran it in AB with lyssa's haste, though ill probably be replacing it with vow of piety 'cause its cheap and maintanable.

As for hexing and shadowsteping out/in it takes about .75 seconds if you're slow, .5-.6 if you're really fast.

zling · Jul 01, 2008, 12:33 AM // 00:33

I think that using an elite just to make a normal skill work is very twisted logic.
if you want easy knockdowns use Shove, Shock, Coward, Bull's Strike, etc notice how I didnt even mention the Assassin knockdowns? that's just cause you said you hated them for some reason...

other than that the build itself seems like a regular instagib build just with a twisted sense of mobility.